http://www.consumingworship.com The latest from the Consuming Worship Forum Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:22:38 GMT cwinfo@consumingworship.com is@consumingworship.com http://www.consumingworship.com http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=6717&msgId=6717&stMsg=1 Someone recently started a forum (which I am now unable to find again) asking "what is worship?" All the responses I read pertained to "worship" being some aspect of music or a Sunday morning service. I would like to humbly respond, if I may. Worship is not a service. Worship is not a song. Worship is not a day of the week or a specific genre. Worship is a lifestyle of adoration. Services, songs, days of the week, etc. are all resources which can be utilized toward the ultimate goal of worship, but no one two or even three of these is actually worship. Worship is an attitude in as much as it is a lifestyle. Perhaps it is more of an attitude than anything else. Consider the daily reading/reciting of the Amidah in the Jewish heritage. The daily reading/recitation is a lifestyle. If, however, one does the reading/recitation without MEANING it, one is encouraged to start over; that is where the attitude comes in to play. Perhaps the definition of worship contemplated herein is a fundamental assumption. It was, however, not mentioned in any of the responses I read pertaining to the initial question so I thought I'd throw in my two cents. Forum Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:22:36 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=6717&msgId=6717&stMsg=1 northernkingdom 2009-10-23T18:22:36Z http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=5984&msgId=5984&stMsg=1 how about this...take the $2000-3000 you would spend on a nice set of Roland V-Drums, buy an incredible shield from 'clearsonic' or something similar (plex, acoustic panels, a FAN, the whole nine yards), get some drum mics, and you'll please everyone. Our chapel that seats 250 is completely controllable in terms of sound levels. We also have a 1200 seat worship center...works even better in there. I've heard some decent sounding electric drums, but the playability is horrible in comparison to the real thing. Of course, the aesthetic is an issue. Some older people will look at acoustic drums and cringe...that's a whole other topic. Bottom line, you do NOT have to compromise if you don't want to. Forum Wed, 06 May 2009 19:21:49 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=5984&msgId=5984&stMsg=1 stalecoffee 2009-05-06T19:21:49Z http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=5748&msgId=5748&stMsg=1 As a drummer, singer, sound tech, and worship pastor, this issue is a real debate for me. Our church has been working hard to eliminate stage noise bleeding into the house, and this is our last biggest hurdle. As a drummer, I hate the feel of electric drums...plastic, rubber, and mesh simply cannot compete with the skins of a well tuned kit. But as a worship pastor who has to be concerned with the overall balance, there are very few solutions to the volume issue with an acoustic kit. Currently, I am looking into acoustic/electric kits like RET produces. They look and feel like real drums (because they are), and even have metal cymbals, but they are almost soundless compared to a true acoustic, and use a module like any other electric kit to produce sounds. While this doesn't help tremendously with the instrumentalists complaint of not hearing the drums as they are used to, it does address virtually all other issues of sound and playability. As far as hearing the drummer the way you want to, might I suggest in-ears, combined with something like an AVIOM outfit? Then you would have personal control of the volumes without creating complaints from the grey-hairs out there! It's worth a shot. And by the way, "You'll just have to live with it" is not an legitimate response. Ever. If it is, then it applies as much to you as a musician as it does to the congregant. We aren't there to perform, we are there to help create an atmosphere where our people can become aware of the ever-present God. The moment we get in the way of that for any reason, we have failed radically as worship leaders. Something to think about. Forum Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:19:10 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=5748&msgId=5748&stMsg=1 coconut92 2009-03-31T21:19:10Z http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=980&pMsgId=5404&msgId=5404&stMsg=1 To be honest, I don't think that whether the story is fact or fiction affects the message in any way. This is a painful, redemptive and beautiful story that I think everyone should experience. True or not is irrelevant. Forum Tue, 03 Feb 2009 23:05:47 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=980&pMsgId=5404&msgId=5404&stMsg=1 deanorrell 2009-02-03T23:05:47Z http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=5385&msgId=5385&stMsg=1 interesting conversation...It's strange about the resistance we see with drums going electronic, although not so strange I suppose. Drums are kind of the last of the 'rock' instruments to enter the electronic world and it is meeting resistance just as the guitar, the bass, and the piano did in their time of transition to electronic from acoustic. There are pros and cons just as there are with other electronic instruments. Although we tend to see electronic drums as 'quieter,' it doesn't have to be that way. There are some great powered monitors on the market just for drums. Whether you like it or dislike it, drums are going electronic. The world of drums will never replace the acoustic drums with electronic, but we will soon see a 50/50 market in the world of percussion. I recently worked in a pro music outfitter shop in Colorado and I was the drum sales guy. I never could have predicted it, but electronic kits outsold acoustic kits 5 to 1 easy. They're quiet or loud depending on the player's choice, they're more portable and rugged, and there is a whole new world of sounds that can be accomplished without purchasing every percussion instrument out there (which is part of the reason guitar, pianos, and the bass have made successful entrances into the world of electronic music). I wish they would begin making electronic drums with some asthetic value rather than the space-ship-looking sets we have seen so far. Forum Wed, 28 Jan 2009 19:42:42 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=5385&msgId=5385&stMsg=1 ephesiansfive 2009-01-28T19:42:42Z http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=980&pMsgId=5226&msgId=5226&stMsg=1 I was listening in on a conversation between people who've read it. It seems the discussing centered around the fiction or non-fiction of the book. Apparently the author of the book is telling the story as told to him. He says he wrote the story "as told to him" thereby rendering doubt as to the truthfulness of the story. It's a bit freaky when God tells someone in modern days to go to a shack "to find emotional healing" (my words). However, why do we believe God would tell an old man to sacrifice his own promised son? Was Abraham really one of us? Was he really going to let another man sleep with his wife as a swap for his cowardly life? Yet he had the courage to "obey" God's command to kill his own son. In short, it's only in our own struggles that we find a story like "The Shack" believable. Call it God's voice, internal dialogue, or a natural drawing to find an answer. The bottom line is the Gentleman in the story found healing. Forum Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:07:13 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=980&pMsgId=5226&msgId=5226&stMsg=1 songsmithdan 2008-12-12T12:07:13Z http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=5225&msgId=5225&stMsg=1 I stand beside the drums (electronic) and play the bass. All I hear is the snap of the sticks on the pads. I want the real McCoy. When we crank them up so you can hear them, there always someone complaining it's too loud. I know conforming to the whims of non musical talent only stagnates the growth of any worship program. With a set of real drums in a booth of course, gives legitimacy to a "you'll just have to live with it " response to any complaint. I love it loud. It's tough as a bassist to interact with the drummer when you can't hear him. Forum Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:52:54 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=5225&msgId=5225&stMsg=1 songsmithdan 2008-12-12T11:52:54Z http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=5073&msgId=5073&stMsg=1 The big drive to electronic drums was mostly due to being able to control the volume level of the drums....when the drums dominate the live band sound nobody's happy....but, happily, there are ways to bring down volume level of an acoustic set that work quite well....and I believe there are also drum sticks (wiffle sticks?) that maintain the sound and feel of playing an acoustic set but don't have the impact (ie: volume) of regular drum sticks. Forum Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:36:44 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=5073&msgId=5073&stMsg=1 metalneck 2008-11-18T18:36:44Z http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=980&pMsgId=4374&msgId=4374&stMsg=1 Yes, have read. Looking to converse about it. Forum Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:23:35 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=980&pMsgId=4374&msgId=4374&stMsg=1 pjmllyd 2008-07-31T22:23:35Z http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=980&pMsgId=4297&msgId=4297&stMsg=1 Has anyone here read it? Forum Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:25:50 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=980&pMsgId=4297&msgId=4297&stMsg=1 crashdummy 2008-06-16T12:25:50Z http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=4072&msgId=4072&stMsg=1 I never thought I would say this, but they both definitely have their pros and cons. As a drummer, I love a good acoustic kit (a "real" drumset) but I have also had opportunity to play an electronic kit, and the ability to program in different sounds just opens up a whole new world. I would also add that I have not been seeing more electronic drum sets lately - Last fall was the first one I have seen in a church in about 7 years. Forum Wed, 06 Feb 2008 12:59:23 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=4072&msgId=4072&stMsg=1 pisomojado 2008-02-06T12:59:23Z http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=4068&msgId=4068&stMsg=1 We have the opposite problem. Our drum set takes up half of our stage (not really, but it seems like it). With a Gibraltar rack, drum shield, two floor monitors, it's huge. Being a sound man, it's been a challenge to get the right mix with the drums if you don't have all of your musicians using sort of in-ear monitor. Forum Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:33:31 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=4068&msgId=4068&stMsg=1 crashdummy 2008-01-29T14:33:31Z http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=4064&msgId=4064&stMsg=1 Where have all the real drums gone? Most of the churches I've been to lately are using electronic drum pads and they are my pet peeve! (Can you tell that I'm a pianist? I'm not even sure if electronic drum pads is the right term). I'm sure they're much easier to move and much more cost effective. But you lose that sense of being truly enveloped by the vibrations of a real drum set. You lose the experience of being swept up in the music. So if you're considering a change, remember what you're losing when you gain convenience! Forum Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:22:20 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=979&pMsgId=4064&msgId=4064&stMsg=1 gabudell 2008-01-24T21:22:20Z http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=980&pMsgId=4063&msgId=4063&stMsg=1 Lately, I've been hearing that the term "Emergent" is becoming outdated. That makes me wonder about the emergent church in general. Is "Emergent" just a catch-phrase that means "seeker-sensitive?" Several years into this movement, has it made much of an impact on the church as a whole? Forum Thu, 24 Jan 2008 21:15:03 GMT http://www.consumingworship.com/nphweb/html/cwol/bbs.jsp?fnc=lm&topicId=980&pMsgId=4063&msgId=4063&stMsg=1 gabudell 2008-01-24T21:15:03Z